Katachi Koutai, the Shapeshifter

But I gave you my little heart :O <3 But point taken.

Anyway, I don't mean to say that he is a knockoff of Prototype, like I said, I've never heard anything about the story, or even played it more than simply sandbox-ing it.

And I dont see the Copying ability as OP at all. It's seems that it could only be as OP as the character he Copied, and of there is a problem then it's the fault of the original characters, not Katachi's. But I'm not a mod, so...

On top of that each time I stack the abilities I divide the strength of the abilities of those stacked.

Edited... Added the need to have brain dna to obtain memory. mebbe i need to add amount of dna=amount of memory gathered. but i wanna see how far that much goes

Added how magic and tech power copying works.

Added two mile telepathic link. is that too far?

Here i am testing the limits of what I can push, sooooo dont get onto me here. i can nerf if needed. But dont tell me to nerf if not nessacary. Thats irrelevant and downright insulting.

Tobais Kado wrote:was that so hard keil?

APPARENTLY, it was! I called in Slam, the ADMIN, because I didnt know what to do. Obviously you didnt know either, or this would have never fucking come up. To top it off, He only disagreed with me on one fucking thing, and that was the variable powergrid (which I will resume arguing against momentarily). I didnt "Tell you to fix it", I told you it needed fixing and that I didnt really know how. I'm only human. I dont have a "How-To Avoid OP characters Handbook." So dont EVEN get smart about how Slam can easily solve the problem. He's had a lot more experience than I have, and he had the benefit of reading the arguments thus far.

Now, to resume discussing the character. First, I believe Sir Admin said:
*ahem*

Slamfist wrote:powers not associated with the DNA, as Devin pointed out, are not taken such as magic or tech powers

This doesnt mean change it so that you can take only SOME magic and Tech powers. It means none. Unless he says otherwise. And I know you said "I'm only testing the limits...so dont get on to me here." But you are seriously testing my patience, so I am.

Next: (This is also kinda for you, Araska) It's true that you cant be OP if you only hold one form at a time. You can only be as OP as the character you're emulating. But you can emulate multiple people at the same time! You never set a time limit on how long it takes to change. So you're in a fight. You turn into Slamfist and chuck a truck. Then, while they are dodging, you turn into Karma and start shooting bullets everywhere. If they get into close range, you turn into Pain and thromp. Somehow you get hurt and turn into Chainer, speeding away. Then you turn into your normal state and regenerate quickly. While doing so, You somehow get blown into absolute nothingness. No matter. You'll regenerate completely 2 MILES AWAY. The FUCK? HOW is that balanced? And since you werent using ANY of those powers at the same time as shapeshifting, you can use them at full strength. Broke as fuck, man.

Slam: The variable grid is just as bad. It's the same as the prior scenario, except that he wouldnt need Heroes abilities for it. Random civilians would do. He chases you down with 6 Speed, gets hit after changing to 6 toughness, punches back with 6 str AND 6 fs, and giggles with glee at the fact that (While he was doing all this) he finally solved that impossible differential equation that had sciantists stumped for so long because he had 6 Int. The grid works because everyone has to make do with the same amount of points. THIS character has basically all 6s.

VERY rarely do I EVER order people around. I usually just offer advice and critique. I'm sorry if you wanted someone to tell you exactly how to make your character because you couldn't do it yourself, but that's not my job.



And for the Zerg thing, this was found in a strategy guide:

But hey, I havent gotten you to listen to anything ELSE I've said in this fucking thread, so what the hell do I care?

Variable power grid does work for now. I have no problem with him having less points to spend on each grid since he can shift back and forth. But as far as the whole "change run, change punch, change solve math", scenario goes, I'm pretty sure it at least takes enough time to switch forms to prevent that, though that was a C-Box convo that brought that revelation around. I don't much like the tech stealing, but once again it invloves brain taking so I don't see that happening to too many heroes. Same with magic, since no one here really uses incantations not gonna be a problem from my standpoint.

keil: No random civilian has a 6 in Str, a 6 in End, or a 6 in Spd. Maybe intelligence, yes to the Fighting skill. In fact the highest stat he's going to get from a normal human is 3 and that's if he kills an Olympic athlete. Most are going to have a stat of 1 in everything except Int which they'll have a 2. So once again, not somethin I need to worry about.

So the only things I know to do is this.
1: Obviously Katachi can not go over the normal 22/20 limit for any form no matter the powers he took.
2: Katachi cannot change willynilly from Chainer to Slamfist mid-punch. Changing into superhumans takes more time than other things because you're body has to adjust to the powers you are gaining, or some other reason.
And these 2 are variable you kinda need to choose one to keep Katachi balanced,
1: Katachi has less points to spend on a powergrid because he is able to change them.
2: Superhuman DNA is to unstable or volatile for his body to store it for a long period or some other reason.

And for the 2 of you, you're letting something very small become very heated. It all started as critisism and friendly banter so I don't know why it's escalated into at least a pseudofeud. I'll try and stop it here. Matt stop quitting because something doesn't go your way I see why Devin's pissed at that, since you quit Magic every other week for basically the same reason, Chris too. It gets old. Also don't push your limits just so you can or use theoritical physics and biology to prove a point, it's theoritical because it's yet to be proven factual. Be like saying "2+2=4" "Well theoritically it equals 5." Just because it could possibly be one thing, fact beats theory. And Devin please cut him a break he has been doing a lot here lately, mostly with very OP characters, so he's got a little more room to be in the wrong, much more so than Wolf when he made Nuke and got approved. Not to mention he's only recently been that active, so he's still kinda working the kinks out of the Character Creation process. And neither of you better start on me or I'll kick your ass, figuratively of course.

Another side note,

1 remember when me n you discussed and agreed on how team 1 should be scrapped and raide pops out of the portal? I went with it. Slam had me delete that

I made you delete this because you were ending it too quickly. At the time of this happening, the topic was less than 1 page and filled mostly with infighting and only 2 or 3 people doing anything helpful.

2 using the abilities of lust I cleared the close proximity of demons making the fight against the portal, thus the clones killed each other. I wanted to focus on the portal and finishing the chapter... Noooooooo none of that.

Once again, ending too quickly. I understand that we want to get out of this chapter but we can't just rush it, almost as bad as just skipping it.

3 Had katachi betray and defend the portal in a quest for dna. nope not storyline specific. viva did not like

Katachi would be killed in the end by demons destroying the world. So if he's not a retarded(no typo), he'd see the problem with this.

4 Had katachi attack incubus demon, nope character is unapproved...

Really no reply for this.

Almost seems that YOU (directed at the staff) want to prolong the chapter. I am getting attacked for trying to help.

I want this chapter to end, believe me. But I also want it ended right. Not a mad dash to see how quickly the boss can be killed. I want good RPing, not like last time where we had to restart the whole fucking boss fight because two people didn't want to RP, ending in everyone quitting and us skipping the boss fight. Though I think most of that was also the due to the awful idea for a Marvel Invasion, though addmittedly it would have been worse with DC because DC sucks.
I also don't recall a single person attacking you for helping. I recall suggestions and people saying things needed to be changed, but nothing saying "Fuck you for what you did here." I appreciate what you've done in the short amount of time that you've been a mod but you got to see criticism for criticism, not attacks, if you want to make it here.

Okay I didn't read Michael's last post because.....well fuck that it was too long, but to be 100% honest Keil is making the most sense, and it seems that his biggest problem with Katachi could be fixed rather easily......not by deleting the character and quitting the site, if the character is someone you like than being able to post without someone calling GOD MOD should be something you want.

So why not just simply give Katachi a transforming time, so he can't switch between all of the stats in the blink of an eye. And to be honest anywhere from 6-10 seconds would be perfect, because that is stoppable, but not impossible to get off. Doing this kinda commits Katachi to one power grid per fight making him like every other character, however if done correctly Katachi can shapeshift keeping his originality.

As for the "never able to be killed" not sure I will need to think on that one.

That's why I hate Cbox agreements, Slam. No one outside of the convo is in on it, and they dont realize that problems have already been addressed. Give a time frame to change PGs and I'll be happy. Honestly, it should be just as long as changing powers, seeing as the PG is all the 'Power' natural heroes get. You dont need powers if your PG is good enough.

So the Tech theft and limited Magic theft both require a brain? Alright, I guess that could make sense. You steal their memories by eating their brain, and then use those memories to activate the tech/incantation. I'm cool with that.

Slamfist wrote: keil: No random civilian has a 6 in Str, a 6 in End, or a 6 in Spd. Maybe intelligence, yes to the Fighting skill. In fact the highest stat he's going to get from a normal human is 3 and that's if he kills an Olympic athlete. Most are going to have a stat of 1 in everything except Int which they'll have a 2. So once again, not somethin I need to worry about.

Well this is pretty much null in void because he can swap his PG to anything anyway. Characters who sacrificed powers and fighting skills to gain a high Int are getting boned tho. Katachi is just as smart as Overmind, outside of battle, and can still match any other character in any other stat.

I really do like the small addition of only 'Storing' so much. Everytime Katachi stopped emulating a person, he would have to purge the DNA, wouldnt he? Otherwise it would still be fighting for dominance, thus adding to his "Divideable powers" limitation. So maybe he has the capability to isolate certain strands of DNA inside himself? With the limitation that he can only store a few (or they eventually dissolve after X uses. Up to you, Toba.)

I understand he's been doing a lot lately, Mike. I was just trying to give feedback on what to address so that others would be ok with RPing with him. Granted, I wasnt in a good mood last night (after getting turned down for a job that I thought I was a shoe-in for), and I took the "That wasnt so hard" comment as an attack on me, and it was just the straw that... well... PETA wont let me finish that phrase anymore.

'Cult wrote:So why not just simply give Katachi a transforming time, so he can't switch between all of the stats in the blink of an eye.

A lot of people have mentioned this now. I know there was some sort of Cbox discussion about it, but it should REALLY be clearly defined in the App. If nothing else, just to give everyone a specific number to look at.

And (Again, like Cult pointed out) my main problem with the psychic connection wasnt that it was possible. My main problem was that he could become un-kill-able. Even though a 2-mile radius doesnt seem very far, the heroes/villains that face him arent EXPECTING a brain to be housed somewhere else. And a 2-mile radius is far to much for someone to just stumble upon after the fact. On top of that, your regen is so high that you regen arms in 3 minutes. That means (proportionally) it would take you only 20 minutes to fully recover after being KILLED. You could just jump right back into the brawl without your opponent so much as catching his breath. I believe the term in MMOs is "Corpse Hopping/Jumping." Throwing yourself at the enemy until they finally die, no matter how many times it might cost you your OWN life. Keeping your psych powers is fine by me. Just keep your brain (Somewhere) in your body, so that you are at least mortal.


kk, I'm done. Sorry again for my (mostly) unwarrented anger.

I talked to Matt whilst at Ingles. He was good with the time limit. I personally like the purge idea though, somewhat like Alex Mercer. Though he can hold certain things in his body, just not full genetic make-up. Like he can still make an arm with low superhuman strength.

I personally believe that the limitations that Keil set out in that last post would make Katachi fine, it solves the multi-PG problem, and the unkillable problem.

Ugh a lot to cover here... I the reason I am being attacked is that the reevalution was vague. for the longest time, it was basically:

"none of that! fix it" then I tried to fix it,
"how this?"
"Nope."
"ok how about This?"
"nope."
"ok im out of ideas I dont know what to do."
"Fix it thats what."
"How?"
"Idk its your character."
"Well then there's nothing I can do it should be scrapped."
"no dont do that.
"Then what do I do?"
"Idk"
{REPEAT CONVO}

With multiple people who disagree with each other.

With no Idea how to fix, this is why this happened when slam finally gave me some suggestions.

Tobais Kado wrote:OMG THANK YOU SLAM

what i wanted to hear

was that so hard keil?

"Needing fixing", How is that not "fix it?" the same damn thing. I would need to come up with the idea of doing something to fix it with. Saying "needing fixing," would lead up to me to "fix it."

...the only things I know to do is this.
1: Obviously Katachi can not go over the normal 22/20 limit for any form no matter the powers he took.
2: Katachi cannot change willynilly from Chainer to Slamfist mid-punch. Changing into superhumans takes more time than other things because you're body has to adjust to the powers you are gaining, or some other reason.
And these 2 are variable you kinda need to choose one to keep Katachi balanced,
1: Katachi has less points to spend on a powergrid because he is able to change them.
2: Superhuman DNA is to unstable or volatile for his body to store it for a long period or some other reason.

1 agreed
2 I will edit in a one post tranformation if it is a full body transformation.
1.1 I said if i try to add shapeshifting to the emulated powers. it is divided among the number of powers stacked. so katachi+1 hero. 50% on both powers.
1.2 I said that I will agree to that in the store today. I also said that I can repulse the dna and reuse it later. How? well thats what I have ravenous for... he will carry my aquired dna around for me.

As for the Fuck you part... Well thats the way I feel like im being attacked by. Viva litterally said the words fuck that in cbox. on katachi himself. anyways... /that discussion.

Let me edit in and hope for the best that I did not forget anything that i need to fix.

===========================================

SC time

wuuuuut here are some screenshots i took myself.

Spoiler:

Bleh, here we go again...

Tobais Kado wrote: the reevalution was vague

Because I didnt know what to do either. I cant TELL you what to do when I dont know how to fix it effectively. I dont have much experience dealing with broke things. I can recognize them, but not fix them yet. You prolly didnt want me to anyway, considering my mood at the time.

Tobais Kado wrote:With no Idea how to fix, this is why this happened when slam finally gave me some suggestions.

Yeah, you took a cheap shot at me for not being able to do something that you couldnt do either. That's called hypocrisy, children. Besides, he offered the same advice I did. He just did it in a more commanding tone.

Tobais Kado wrote:"Needing fixing", How is that not "fix it?" the same damn thing. I would need to come up with the idea of doing something to fix it with. Saying "needing fixing," would lead up to me to "fix it."

There is a difference. I suggested what needed fixing so that problems could be addressed. I couldnt offer actual suggestions on how to fix it, so I didnt ORDER you to fix it (by saying "Fix it."). That wouldnt have been fair. I was asking you to try, not telling you to succeed. Besides, you SHOULD be able to come up with ideas to fix it. It's YOUR character. Dont wait for someone else to make you character for you.

Tobais Kado wrote: I also said that I can repulse the dna and reuse it later. How? well thats what I have ravenous for... he will carry my aquired dna around for me.

So you're going back to having the DNA forever? It seemed to be the group consensus that this shouldnt happen. It needs to be either A) Used up after a time, or B) Limited by how many he can "Remember" at a time. See, I'm giving you a choice, not an order. That's how I roll.


Back to SC:

Spoiler:

At the risk of upsetting people.

Honestly Mat you shouldn't rely on Devin, or me or Mike to fix your character, I personally don't mind helping, and I doubt the other two do either. But you can't expect us to do so, you should fix it yourself, and I have to say, you have been very cooperative, and for that I thank you. If you compile all the suggestions made so far Katachi will be fixed and this can all be put aside.

Thank you again to everyone that contributed to the fixing of the character, and thank you Mat for sticking it out, through SC and all , to fix your character.

Tobais Kado wrote:I have asked many times for suggestions, because I was out of ideas. It was because i didnt get suggestions that made me mad. Then I did, and things got better.

Take a comparative look:

http://superhero-rpg.forumotion.com/approved-villians-f10/katachi-koutai-t1159.htm?highlight=katachi

It has been nerfed ALOT. I even added a suicide flaw. Me n Slam discussed some stuff that will add a time limit to DNA usage.

Sry an edit... I didnt get any ideas that either I didnt like or to was asking to scrap. I was trying to find a happy medium.

personaly i like the character and before you give up on him i think that i can help it is always good to have fresh eyes look something over and give in their input.

i think that they only thing that is making him op is a few of his ability's and the power grid thing and i think i have a way to fix both of them based on what i have read which has taken me like a half hour to do so.

in order to fix the power grid i think that they should all be exchangeable except for the int. and ep. and the reason behing that is that just because you changed you body don't mean that you get smarter or dumber, and you shouldn't gain or loose more of your ep just by shape shifting. they only way that should change is when your spit and makes clones, but you fighting skill will decrease and increase as well as your speed and strength based on the build of the body that you are taking on. so in this theory your states would look something like what follows.

these are copied and pasted from your character sheet.
Str: 3
Spd: 3
End: 3
Int: 5
EP: 6
Fs: 2
your int and ep should not be able to change so that would give you another 11 points that you could fuck around with in rp to modify your character based on the fight.

now on to which of your ability's are op.
the hole smoke thing i might have just missed read that one but from what i understand is that basically he can jump into peoples body as long as they breath and then kill them from they inside. now their is no defense from that unless you blow your self up. in which your guy would still live because of they other brain thing.

if you ask me i think that if he is done this way he will not be op and could possible be approved. if i missed anything just pm me and i will add to what ever was missed and try and sort this out with you guys, but sense i'm not an admin i can not tell you what to do your not to do. it is your choice to listen and act on what i said or not.

I got something to nerf the smoke thing.. i dont have time now b/c i have to work in like 20 mins Do not say anything about that yet

As for the powergrid, It is fine now. I want my clones to be animals acting on instinct and able to take commands from me and me only, that kinda int is 1. As for EP it prolly will never go below 5 so dont worry about that. I could also make meat sheild clones, with 1 ep and 1 int, just to provide distractions.

Its not JUST physical changes there is mental changes as well.

I have edited the smoke thing. Can I get a revaluation please?

(bump?)

It seems a lot more fair, and I have yet to find anything wrong with it, it is 5 am so I will read more in depth tomorrow, as well as wait for Devin's point of view, but from what I saw it is definitely better.